FAMILY

There have been several posts recently about the Gleco Trap. I would like to clarify some things about the trap, answer some questions and address some inaccurate information I have seen passed around.

First of all, the Gleco trap is an incredibly simple design, which often leads people to believe that it can't possible work. Let me assure you, it does live up to its claims, it is a "serious clay trap," not a cleanable P-trap. Since Bracker's began selling Gleco Traps in the Ceramics Industry, we have shipped out over 1900 traps. Of those, we have had had only 3 returned. We have one installed in our own sink here. I have physically watched it work when I have washed the clay off of my hands. My warehouse guys wash up in that sink after making Casting Slip, weighing out chemicals, building palletized orders to ship out, etc. We use it for workshops with 30 or so participants all using it. We have had no problems, and we are on our own septic system out here.

Carole questioned whether the trap is large enough to allow the water turbulence to subside enough for the clay particles to fall and collect in the jar. If you look at a picture of the trap, you will notice the hard white plastic "bell" immediately below the connection pipes. This is where the water enters the trap. It holds about 30oz of water and allows an initial slow down of the water flow. Then the water travels into the jar itself. Clean water that has been sitting in the jar flows above the line on the bottle and must be pushed up and out of your pipes.

Carole also questioned whether it would remove enough sediment to protect her septic system. Although Vince and Snail both said no, the answer is yes. Prior to receiving the UPC approval, The Gleco trap had to undergo very stringent tests to determine how much of the solids were trapped. As Donald mentioned, the trap was initially used in dental labs and offices to keep the plaster from clogging the pipes. (By the way, the dental labs that use the trap go through a huge volume of plaster, not just small-batch jobs like in an office.) If you've ever seen dental plaster or had a mold of your teeth done recently, then you know that the particle size of dental plaster is INCREDIBLY small, much smaller than clay. The tests showed 100% of dental plaster particles and other tested solids were contained by the trap. I am sending John Gleason, the inventor, some potter's clay to test and will certainly report back with the findings.

Now, for the sake of argument, let's say that the trap might not catch EVERY clay particle in a real-life environment. (Frankly, I don't know that any clay trap or method of tool/hand cleaning will catch every clay particle when you get down to the *microscopic* level.) However, any particles that would not get collected by the Gleco trap will be too tiny to cause any harm to a septic system.

Further, I've been doing some research on septic systems. The biggest problems with septic systems are:

1. Using too much water
2. Soap - Laundry soap, dish soap, hand soap, shampoo, conditioner etc. As soap goes through the pipes, it stays "sudsy" and "bubbly," essentially lighter than the water. It gets left behind in the pipes, much like bubbles left in the tub after draining a bubble bath. As it sits there, it condenses and compacts into a solid. John Gleason (who was a Plumber with Roto-Rooter for 16 years before inventing the trap) told me that he had pulled what looked like a full bar of soap out of septic pipes many times.
3. Washing Machines - You've emptied the lint trap in your dryer, I'm sure, so you know the volume of lint that can be produced by clothes. Lint also comes off in the washer and goes right down your pipes. Polyester or Nylon clothes compound the problem because these synthetic materials are not biodegradable and won't break down in your septic system.
4. Tree or large plant roots that can grow into the laterals.

For more information on septic systems check these websites:
http://alsnetbiz.com/homeimprovement/septic.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/users/wye/personel/Miller/septic.html
http://wehomeinspect.com/septic_systems.htm
http://www.deq.state.id.us/water/assist_citizen_comm/septic/
http://www.septic_homeowners_guide.pdf

A couple of people brought up the size of the collection jar. There are 5 sizes available:

19oz (primarily used by people in older homes or with unusual pipe configurations that have limited space under their sink.)
32oz (primarily used as a draining device for people using the 19oz collection bottle - remember, that hard white plastic part that collects the initial water holds 30oz.)
43oz (this is just a little taller than the 19oz and much wider to accomodate a little more collection room than the 19oz)
64oz - 1/2 gallon (this is the standard most commonly used size)
128oz - 1 gallon (requires extra clearance and some extra support for weight underneath)

Now let's think about what that means. If I've just been throwing and I have clay all over my hands and up to my elbows, plus all over my tools, it's going to probably be about 2 oz, maybe up to 4 oz for a REALLY messy thrower of actual clay particles. Handbuilding would probably be in the neighborhood of 1-2 oz. So that means that with a 64oz bottle on your trap, you would get an average of about 32 washings, depending on how messy or neat you are, whether you're handbuilding or throwing etc. If you throw each and every day, you'll probably be changing the bottle once every month to month and a half. Hmm... I have to take out my trash once every week and collecting and taking all that out is way more difficult than changing the Gleco bottle! I can change that bottle in one neat and tidy minute. It takes me about 5-10 minutes to get all of the trash from various places in the house into the cans and out to the curb. Not to mention that right now it is COLD in Kansas, so that just adds annoyance to taking out the trash.

If you teach classes and have multiple people using the sink, you might have to change it weekly, much like you probably have to fire your kiln weekly (or more often).

Finally, I would like to strongly discourage people from commenting on any product they haven't used and speculating whether it can actually work, especially if that speculation is emphatically
negative and sounds like fact rather than supposition.

I welcome any other questions either on or off list.

Cindy Bracker
Bracker's Good Earth Clays, Inc.
888-822-1982
http://www.brackers.com

trying to tap into any plumbing experience you may have.

our new studio has a large industrial sink in the hallway; landlord wants us to tell him what he needs to put on the sink, trap-wise, so our waste water won't clog the drain. (water/slip from throwing, washing glaze from buckets, etc...)

ideas?

alyssa

Snip ..."landlord wants us to tell him what he needs to put on the sink, trap-wise, so our waste water won't clog the drain." .....Snip

Try the Gleco Trap from Ceramic supply and others. Looks as if someone handy from your studio could easily put this in. Since I am building a new community art center pottery studio I have looked at this versus the plumbers sediment trap. Since we are going to have kids and adults this looks much easier to keep an eye on than a metal trap. Plus you can swipe a full trap for a new empty one (2 minutes supposedly). Much better than waiting for the clog or smell to alert you.

And no I don't know anybody at Gleco but can recognize a good product when I see one. Especially if you have a few different people in your studio.

Ed

I have a Gleco Trap and it's wonderful. You can see the sediment as it slowly collects in the bottle and then when it reaches a line near the top, it's time to change to another bottle. Theres a twistie knob to drain the plumbing line so it doesn't leak all over as the bottles are changed out. Then simply unscrew one plastic thingie, switch out the bottles and re- screw the plastic thingie back in place. Couldn't be easier. SOOOO worth the investment!

I have one with the 64 ounce bottles. The trap comes with two bottles so you automatically have a spare for changing out. I'm in the basement by myself and it took 5 or 6 months before I had to change the first bottle. Haven't had to change it a second time yet but no sweat when I do.

Usual disclaimers - I don't work for the company, don't know anybody who does and I don't own any stock in the company. Its simply a great product and I recommend it highly.

Belinda

I confess I know nothing of plumbing, but I can't understand how the Gleco trap can work. It seems to me that the water would be moving through too fast for the sediment to settle out. The trap volume looks small and therefore the water is not in there long, right?

I guess I'm really dense, but I could use one of those things if they actually work. I mean, I'm sure they remove SOME sediment, but enough to protect my septic system?

Carole

I have similar doubts about the Gleco design. If the water doesn't stick around long enough for most of the sediment to fall out of suspension, then it won't have much benefit. Such a small container would also seem to allow too much turbulence for the clay to settle out adequately. Time and still water are needed for sedimentation. If it doesn't settle out in the trap, then it's going right on through. I wouldn't trust my septic system to it, for sure. It's that fine, slow-to-settle stuff that clogs leach fields the worst, I figure.

The tale about only having to empty it occasionally seems to support this doubt in my mind. I seldom throw, so my cleanup is much less than that of many clay folks, but my old-fashioned bucket trap gathers the equivalent of that large Gleco jar's capacity in a month or two. If I threw 'messy', or taught even a small class, I'd expect it to fill with maybe one week's accumulation, even if the chunks were scraped into a slop bucket first. IF it were working.

For a proper test, I'd want to see it hooked up for use, but with the outflow emptying into another container to see not just what the Gleco catches, but what gets past it. That's the part that counts.

Meantime, I'll stick with my bucket.

-Snail

Carole says:
I can't understand how the Gleco trap can work. It seems to me that the water would be moving through too fast for the sediment to settle out. The trap volume looks small and therefore the water is not in there long, right?

Snail says:
For a proper test, I'd want to see it hooked up for use, but with the outflow emptying into another container to see not just what the Gleco catches, but what gets past it. That's the part that counts.
------------------

Snail and Carol may have a point here. The Gleco works great for me in part because the plumbing to and from my basement sink was installed by my dear husband. The sink empties into the Gleco bottle and then the run-off goes UP HILL a foot or so before joining with the water drainage in the laundry room that then exits the house. My sink is below that joining point. That means all the sediment sitting in the pipe has plenty of time to fall backwards into the trap bottle.

For me to have a trap bucket of the type Snail mentioned, it would have to have a VERY water tight lid otherwise gravity might pull the water in the uphill pipe back into the bucket and overflow it into the studio.

I also have a pre-clean-up bucket so not much sediment makes it into the sink.

I say again, tho, the Gleco system works great for me. In fact, it may be the ONLY clay trap system that would work in the depths of my basement.

Belinda

The purpose of the usual "p-trap" under a sink is to keep smelly gases from the drain system from coming up through the drain. It works because it stays filled with water as you use the sink, blocking the gases from backing up into the house. But because it has water sitting in it it can get clogged by solids like clay settling out. I don't think the purpose of the Gleco Trap is to keep solids like clay from going into your sewer or septic system, but rather to replace the normal "p-trap" with a trap that is easily cleaned out and so doesn't suffer from getting clogged.

Bruce

I have a Gleco. The owner Gleason, explained it was designed for dentists who use plaster in do dental work. They used to have the plaster plug the line. The trap has kept my lines open. The sediment that is carried out the sewer line, still goes out, bigger pieces, that will settle out, are trapped. If fine clay sediment is a danger to your septic tank, I don't think the Gleco will work. Fine sediment does flow through.

Donald

I think Bruce's analysis is good. I've always called the standard plumbing trap a "J" trap, and in the studio they are prone to clogging very quickly. Bruce brings up a good point - the Gleco probably serves well as a "J" trap that will not clog easily, and thus on a standard non-septic plumbing system it might work okay over time. The coarse particles would be trapped in the Gleco, and the fine particles might travel on into the city sewers. But there could be some buildup in the pipes over time and that could cause problems. I would worry about that.

But if one is looking for a real sink trap that will capture most of the coarse and fine particles, the Gleco does not seem appropriate for any ceramic studio use, and could be a real disaster if used in conjunction with a septic system.
- Vince

I think he's right on this, that the Gleco is basically a cleanable P-trap, not a substitute for a serious clay trap. If it was designed for dental plaster, it makes sense - plaster tends to settle and set, and it will settle in low spots like a P-trap. Also, dental plaster is usually a small-batch job. The Gleco is probably just dandy for that intended purpose, but expecting it to do more is just not reasonable. Might be the only feasable choice for existing residential plumbing when a proper trap won't fit, with city sewerage and light use, but not or quantity work, nor to protect a septic system.

-Snail

Vince,

I wonder if this is not a bit of over kill, sure the fine parts will not settle out but a drain field is a big thing. It you have a small studio like we do how long would it take to do any really damage? We use a 30 gallon tank as a trap and then let it overflow on the ground. This means that most goes in the ground around the tank. After two years the tank is half full and looking around the tank you can't not tell any difference. Most septic tanks are 1000 gallons or larger and a drain field has 100's of feet of pipe and is about 3' wide. While I would not think dumping mud into it is "best practice" it would not be something that is going to be a problem any time soon. Kitchen grease may do the drain field in way before the clay does. I could see if you have a school or a large studio with lot of people cleaning clay things every day this could be a problem a lot sooner!

Have you thought of any good use for the clay you get from your trap? We where thinking of casting ours into a shape and low firing it and using the result as stepping stones outside the studio.

Dan & Laurel

Howdy-

I just cleaned out the Emails this evening and noticed many posts concerning Gleco clay traps and such. Here's my take on the matter, I've been playing in clay since 1991, been a state licenced plumbing contractor since 1982- working in the trade full time for 34 years.

I saw a Gleco trap at a local ceramic supplier, it has a very small volume but would be better than using a sink without one. Any suspended clay that could pass thru the Gleco trap would make its way thru the building drain into the septic tank. The slurry would settle into the bottom of the septic tank before getting to the drainfield. At my humble 'pottery' I had the option of installing a sink connected to our house building drain that empties into a septic tank and drainfield. There is no way that I would do this. The piping between the sink and the inlet of the septic tank would be prone to clogging up. INSTEAD I use a 30 gallon Rubbermaid plastic garbage can for washing up. It sits outside in the shade on two concrete blocks, very hi-tech. I also add a small amout of bleach when mosquitoes start breeding. It stood upright thru Frances, Jeanne, and Wilma.,Wilma took the lid.

FYI- a P-trap receives waste from the vertical and discharges horizontally (into the wall), a S-trap receives waste from the vertical and discharges vertical ( into the floor). IF you are deadset on connecting a sink to your plumbing system and want a decent piece of hardware, invest in a proper sized trap such as those made by Zurn, it holds about two gallons of sediment. I don't have the product number, but it should be available online thru Zurn's website. The cost of one service call to grind out a drain will offset the expense!

Wishin' All Y'all Well,
Millard "Mill"